PORTLAND — After first saying he would not debate independent Eliot Cutler if Republican Gov. Paul LePage was not also participating, Mike Michaud, the Maine Democratic candidate for governor, said Tuesday he would debate Cutler with or without LePage.

The switch for Maine’s 2nd District congressman came a day after LePage said he wouldn’t debate Michaud until he denounced a third-party television advertisement claiming LePage said Social Security and Medicare is welfare.

LePage has repeatedly rebutted the assertion, which started with a news release from LePage’s office earlier this year that appeared to lump several federal entitlement or benefit programs together as welfare.

But LePage went so far as conducting an automated phone call to Maine voters in an attempt to set the record straight. He also tried to clarify his position during a weekly radio address broadcast statewide and published in a number of newspapers, and on numerous other occasions he has told the media he does not consider Social Security or Medicare welfare.  

LePage on Tuesday again said he has never considered Social Security welfare. He told a group of reporters in Augusta he never even “thought” that.

But he also said he wouldn’t defend his position in a debate with Michaud unless Michaud first denounces the advertisement.

And while Michaud and his campaign have no control over the advertisement, which is being aired by a political action committee, Michaud has repeated the claim at campaign stops, including one in  Auburn recently when he said LePage called Social Security and Medicare — federal entitlement programs paid for by worker and employer contributions — welfare.

Michaud stood by the assertion when questioned by a Sun Journal reporter about LePage’s attempts to clarify his position.  Michaud said his campaign had the press release from LePage’s office and, ” … the cat’s out of the bag.”

During a press conference in Portland on Tuesday, Michaud again refused to denounce the advertisement and to some extent defended it.

He restated that LePage earlier this year called Social Security “welfare” and said that once LePage’s “temper tantrum” is over, he expects the governor to take part in the debates just as virtually every major-party gubernatorial candidate in recent memory has done.

“Gov. LePage clearly had a bad day yesterday,” Michaud said. “We’ve heard him make threats and throw temper tantrums like this before, but he doesn’t follow through.”

Michaud’s campaign spokeswoman also pointed to previous threats LePage has made, including ones that he would move out of his State House offices and work from the governor’s mansion and one that he would veto every bill that came across his desk if lawmakers didn’t first pass a bill he wanted to pay back hospitals.

“He hasn’t followed through on any of these previous threats either,” Lizzy Reinholt said. She also said during the Michaud news conference the campaign received word LePage had reconfirmed his appearance at a debate scheduled Oct. 9 in Waterville.

But attempts to reach LePage’s campaign staff to confirm that were unsuccessful Tuesday. Also still unclear Tuesday was whether LePage and Michaud would join Cutler in a debate hosted by the Maine Public Broadcasting Network, the state’s public television and radio system. Cutler is the only candidate who has accepted the network’s invitation while LePage has declined and Michaud has said he would only participate if LePage did, according to Mal Leary, the managing editor and director of the network’s Capitol Connections project.

Michaud also said Tuesday that the debate over debates was distracting from the issues at hand for Maine voters.

“Without question, the issue that has received the most attention from the media in this race is debates,” Michaud said. “We’ve spent way too much time debating debate instead of real issues. When I travel the state and talk to Mainers, they ask me about jobs and the economy. They are worried about education and health care, and they are tired of the politics of division. It’s time of focus on those issues.”

Michaud’s campaign has previously said Michaud wouldn’t participate in any debates that LePage was not taking part in.

But the new threat by LePage to not show up at any debates with Michaud unless he denounces the advertisement has put new pressure on Michaud to debate Cutler regardless.

So far, all three candidates have agreed to just six debates, including three that will be televised statewide. The first debate is set for Oct. 9. The candidates are also scheduled to appear at a debate hosted by the Androscoggin Valley Chamber of Commerce at the Ramada Inn in Lewiston on the morning of Oct. 10.

Cutler has complained that the two major party candidates are doing a disservice to Maine voters by refusing to participate in debates, or by only agreeing to appear in a very small number of debates and then only late in the campaign season. He said Tuesday it’s time for the candidates to “stop playing chicken” and to agree to debate.

Cutler’s campaign has pointed out that in 2010 there were 31 gubernatorial debates, but that includes pre-primary debates. So far, 13 debates that took place post-primary in 2010, have either been canceled or were never agreed to by one or more of the candidates in 2014.

James Melcher, a political science professor at the University of Maine at Farmington, said the latest dust-up over debates between LePage and Michaud was likely to aid Cutler’s camp, which says partisan political games are ruining the government and the debate over debates is a classic example.

Melcher wrote in an email to the Sun Journal on Tuesday that many believe Cutler, an attorney and businessman, may also have the best stage presence and is likely to do the best in live debates.

Melcher said Cutler, who has been polling a distant third, also has the most to gain and least to lose from debate appearances with the front-runners.  

” … This does actually fit in very well with a theme (Cutler) has been developing in this campaign and the last one — that the major parties, in his view, play too many political games and that Maine needs a change from them,” Melcher wrote.

The other candidates, especially LePage, who has gained repeated national attention with his frequent off-colored or controversial remarks, face more risk than potential reward from appearing in debates, Melcher said.

Melcher said LePage, based on his 2010 debate appearances, is very capable of turning in a winning debate performance so it’s unlikely he’s afraid to be on the stage with Michaud and Cutler.

Still Melcher said LePage had just recently abandoned a forum on energy in Portland where all three candidates were set to present their views, but not in a debate format. LePage, dissatisfied that all three candidates had been put together on the same stage, decided to not participate because the format was not what he had been told it was.

“I think the governor’s claim that he won’t debate Michaud rings less true than it would if he had gone through with the energy debate in Portland, which he left at the last minute,” Melcher wrote.

LePage’s new ultimatum against Michaud is either a reflection that he doesn’t want to do any debates in an effort to avoid “gaffes” or “he is trying to strengthen Cutler’s hand against Michaud by trying to force Michaud to either debate Cutler alone … or make it look like Michaud is being unfair to Cutler by not debating him, possibly jeopardizing Michaud as he struggles for the anti-LePage vote,” Melcher wrote.

Cutler said Tuesday that he remained willing to debate either or both of the other candidates and intended to appear, alone if necessary, at all the debates and forums he had been invited to, including one Wednesday in Farmington hosted by the Franklin County Chamber of Commerce.

Cutler said were the tables turned and he was the incumbent or the front-runner he would be equally eager to participate in debates with his opponents.

“I really believe in democracy,” Cutler said. “And I believe in voters and I believe in the importance of an informed electorate and I believe that debates are for voters. I believe candidates have an obligation to debate, an obligation to voters.”

Cutler said Michaud and LePage should stand with him and defend their views, explain their policy positions. “I believe voters deserve to be treated like adults,” he said. “I will always debate because I think it is an obligation of a public official or a candidate for public office.”

sthistle@sunjournal.com

Chris Cousins with the Bangor Daily News contributed to this report.

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